The outgoing General Evangelist of
Christ Apostolic Church Worldwide, Prophet Samuel Abiara, in this
interview with TUNDE AJAJA, speaks about his ministry and life at 75
Christ Apostolic Church Worldwide, Prophet Samuel Abiara, in this
interview with TUNDE AJAJA, speaks about his ministry and life at 75
You hardly mark your birthday, were you waiting till you clocked 75 before marking it?
You’re right, I don’t celebrate my
birthday and this is the first time that I want to do so. But all along,
God has done so much for me, particularly the salvation of my soul. God
has saved my soul, He gave me freedom and He has given me the assurance
that I would not enter into eternal punishment, which is the main thing
for me. So, I have many reasons why I want to give thanks to God
Almighty. If you count your blessings one by one, you would see that God
has blessed you. It’s not by my power, fasting and prayers, holiness;
I’m not even holy. But it has been His mercy. So, I need to thank God.
birthday and this is the first time that I want to do so. But all along,
God has done so much for me, particularly the salvation of my soul. God
has saved my soul, He gave me freedom and He has given me the assurance
that I would not enter into eternal punishment, which is the main thing
for me. So, I have many reasons why I want to give thanks to God
Almighty. If you count your blessings one by one, you would see that God
has blessed you. It’s not by my power, fasting and prayers, holiness;
I’m not even holy. But it has been His mercy. So, I need to thank God.
At 75, do you still have the dreams of what you want to achieve or you are just enjoying life and waiting for His call?
When God called me, He told me that
anything I wanted in life He would do it for me and God has been
faithful. Till date, He gives me anything I want. I bless His name
because He’s never let me down. There are many things I thank God for.
And that is why I used this opportunity to call people to join me. One
of the things highlighted for the programme is Praise Night; I just want
to thank God. That is why we have also invited the likes of Pastor
Enoch Adeboye, Bishop David Oyedepo and Pastor Mathew Ashimolowo to join
us.
anything I wanted in life He would do it for me and God has been
faithful. Till date, He gives me anything I want. I bless His name
because He’s never let me down. There are many things I thank God for.
And that is why I used this opportunity to call people to join me. One
of the things highlighted for the programme is Praise Night; I just want
to thank God. That is why we have also invited the likes of Pastor
Enoch Adeboye, Bishop David Oyedepo and Pastor Mathew Ashimolowo to join
us.
What were you doing before God called you?
I came to Ibadan in 1959, and in 1960, I
was a clerk under J. Agoro. The man loved me so much. Despite feeding
me, he was paying me 15 Shillings per month, which was one naira, 50
kobo. I followed him to church, and then God said I must serve Him. He
said I must quit my job because He wanted to send me to the whole world.
was a clerk under J. Agoro. The man loved me so much. Despite feeding
me, he was paying me 15 Shillings per month, which was one naira, 50
kobo. I followed him to church, and then God said I must serve Him. He
said I must quit my job because He wanted to send me to the whole world.
You were just 21 then, did you jump at it or were you a bit reluctant?
I didn’t want to heed God’s call because
I used to see people ringing bells, preaching and still asking people
for money. I said I didn’t want that, but God said He is the Alpha and
Omega; the beginning and the end. He said He would give me whatever I
wanted. And God has been faithful; He gave me everything that I wanted.
I used to see people ringing bells, preaching and still asking people
for money. I said I didn’t want that, but God said He is the Alpha and
Omega; the beginning and the end. He said He would give me whatever I
wanted. And God has been faithful; He gave me everything that I wanted.
What was your parents’ reaction?
I came from a poor family and they
didn’t have the money to send me back to school, so there was no such
opposition. I benefitted from the free primary education, and I was able
to move on in my education. God has been helping me to develop myself.
didn’t have the money to send me back to school, so there was no such
opposition. I benefitted from the free primary education, and I was able
to move on in my education. God has been helping me to develop myself.
When you were the General Evangelist, how easy was the job?
I thank God for everything. On September
2, 1967, God called me and said He is the Alpha and Omega, the
beginning and the end. He said he would give me the authority to be a
prophet and evangelist, and that I must go into the world to carry out
that work. By the grace of God, in December 2006, the authorities of the
Christ Apostolic Church appointed me into that office and I have no
regret about it. Looking at what has happened between then and now,
before I joined, the church was doing well, and by the grace of God, we
were able to continue with the work. It wasn’t for my glory, it was a
teamwork. A building that is standing is a product of many materials –
blocks, cement, iron rods, wood, etc. So it’s a combined effort. A tree
can never make a forest, so we worked with other persons there and that
was how we were able to make progress. Whether I’m there or not, God
would see to the growth of His church. He can do it without us, but we
can’t do without Him. So, it was a combined effort, not that someone
made it happen.
2, 1967, God called me and said He is the Alpha and Omega, the
beginning and the end. He said he would give me the authority to be a
prophet and evangelist, and that I must go into the world to carry out
that work. By the grace of God, in December 2006, the authorities of the
Christ Apostolic Church appointed me into that office and I have no
regret about it. Looking at what has happened between then and now,
before I joined, the church was doing well, and by the grace of God, we
were able to continue with the work. It wasn’t for my glory, it was a
teamwork. A building that is standing is a product of many materials –
blocks, cement, iron rods, wood, etc. So it’s a combined effort. A tree
can never make a forest, so we worked with other persons there and that
was how we were able to make progress. Whether I’m there or not, God
would see to the growth of His church. He can do it without us, but we
can’t do without Him. So, it was a combined effort, not that someone
made it happen.
Even though you have handed over, you still have your own ministry, is there a time you would likely retire?
Nobody can retire from the work of God;
the work of God is for life. However, in the constitution of the CAC,
which is an organised church, when you clock 75, you must leave the seat
for the younger people. After stepping aside, I’m still free to heed
any invitation to minister and I still have a ministry. God has
appointed me as a prophet and evangelist for life. So, there is no
retirement for me, until God calls me. I’m ready to do the work of God
till I die.
the work of God is for life. However, in the constitution of the CAC,
which is an organised church, when you clock 75, you must leave the seat
for the younger people. After stepping aside, I’m still free to heed
any invitation to minister and I still have a ministry. God has
appointed me as a prophet and evangelist for life. So, there is no
retirement for me, until God calls me. I’m ready to do the work of God
till I die.
When you started, it all began in your living room. How easy was it?
When God sends you on an assignment, He
will back you. He won’t call you and leave you to it. Even to start a
business is not easy. But when you have the backing of God, everything
would be easy. I have no regret that God called me into the ministry; He
provides for me and I feel I don’t deserve all He has done for me and
all He has done through me. It wasn’t the length of my fasting, neither
was it my righteousness, because I’m not righteous. But in His infinite
mercy, He chose to bless me. I only found favour in His sight and that
is why I want to celebrate and thank Him for all He has done.
will back you. He won’t call you and leave you to it. Even to start a
business is not easy. But when you have the backing of God, everything
would be easy. I have no regret that God called me into the ministry; He
provides for me and I feel I don’t deserve all He has done for me and
all He has done through me. It wasn’t the length of my fasting, neither
was it my righteousness, because I’m not righteous. But in His infinite
mercy, He chose to bless me. I only found favour in His sight and that
is why I want to celebrate and thank Him for all He has done.
You have three sets of twins. Did you ask God for it?
Before I got married, God promised me
that He would bless me with twins and I just thank Him for everything. I
have many things to thank God for. He fulfiled His promise and blessed
me with three sets of twins. All of them are alive and they are doing
well.
that He would bless me with twins and I just thank Him for everything. I
have many things to thank God for. He fulfiled His promise and blessed
me with three sets of twins. All of them are alive and they are doing
well.
These days, people have criticised pastors for living a flamboyant lifestyle. What is your reaction to that?
There is also the need for moderation in
everything we do, but when people don’t have anything and they see
someone flourishing, they tend to criticise the person. The Bible does
not put us in darkness and He has said that we must not judge. God can
call you the next moment and you would have members. Let us say the
members you pray for begin to enjoy God’s blessing or doors begin to
open for them. Let us say after that, they make profit in their
businesses and they come to give you gifts, on their own. Why should
that be an issue? I want to advise those making noise to pray, so God
can bless them too. Now that God has blessed me, someone is coming to
criticise me. I don’t want to blame those doing that because they are
ignorant of the word. They must look at the Bible critically and realise
that it is not even part of God’s plan that we should be poor. Poverty
or lack is not the symbol of godliness. He has made provision for those
who follow him.
everything we do, but when people don’t have anything and they see
someone flourishing, they tend to criticise the person. The Bible does
not put us in darkness and He has said that we must not judge. God can
call you the next moment and you would have members. Let us say the
members you pray for begin to enjoy God’s blessing or doors begin to
open for them. Let us say after that, they make profit in their
businesses and they come to give you gifts, on their own. Why should
that be an issue? I want to advise those making noise to pray, so God
can bless them too. Now that God has blessed me, someone is coming to
criticise me. I don’t want to blame those doing that because they are
ignorant of the word. They must look at the Bible critically and realise
that it is not even part of God’s plan that we should be poor. Poverty
or lack is not the symbol of godliness. He has made provision for those
who follow him.
The CAC is riddled with some
pending leadership crises, now that you are stepping down as the
General Evangelist, how do you feel that you are leaving the crises
behind?
pending leadership crises, now that you are stepping down as the
General Evangelist, how do you feel that you are leaving the crises
behind?
We are already on the path of resolution
and talks are going on among all the aggrieved parties. I assure you
that everything would be settled soon, and specifically before the end
of the year. That is something that I’m committed to resolving before I
leave finally and by the grace of God, it will happen.
and talks are going on among all the aggrieved parties. I assure you
that everything would be settled soon, and specifically before the end
of the year. That is something that I’m committed to resolving before I
leave finally and by the grace of God, it will happen.
There is a growing debate on whether people should pay tithe or not. What is your view on it?
This is the end time and there are so
many heresies. Your pastor or Bishop has taught you to pay tithe, and
the instruction didn’t even emanate from pastors, but from God. In
Malachi 3:8, He said people have robbed Him, by not paying their tithes
and offering. That God is the same yesterday, today and forever. How can
you stand up now and say it is wrong to pay a tithe? That is heresy. I
just want to advise those who are listening to the heresy to quit and
check the Bible themselves. I want to advise the whole world that they
must stop the excuses and follow what God said about tithe and offering.
Immediately the Israelites came out from the bondage, after God had
delivered them, in Exodus 25, God told Moses to bring Him an offering
and build a sanctuary for Him. He’s still the same God. He said we
should pay tithe so that food would be in His house. God has said what
He wants and it remains there for life. If you say you don’t want it in
your Bible and you tear it, you can’t tear it in my Bible. People should
check their own Bible if they are not comfortable with what their
religious leaders taught them about tithe. And let me tell you that
pastors who say there is no need to pay tithe know how to get money from
their members, and at the end of the day, they get more than the tithe.
We cannot afford to be ignorant of the word of God. I don’t know the
entire Bible, but the little I know, I can break it, slice it and
present it to individuals, because the word of God is the bread of life.
Some of the revered great men of God fast for days and they make a lot
of sacrifices. That was how people started calling me Coconut Pastor
(Woli Alagbon).
many heresies. Your pastor or Bishop has taught you to pay tithe, and
the instruction didn’t even emanate from pastors, but from God. In
Malachi 3:8, He said people have robbed Him, by not paying their tithes
and offering. That God is the same yesterday, today and forever. How can
you stand up now and say it is wrong to pay a tithe? That is heresy. I
just want to advise those who are listening to the heresy to quit and
check the Bible themselves. I want to advise the whole world that they
must stop the excuses and follow what God said about tithe and offering.
Immediately the Israelites came out from the bondage, after God had
delivered them, in Exodus 25, God told Moses to bring Him an offering
and build a sanctuary for Him. He’s still the same God. He said we
should pay tithe so that food would be in His house. God has said what
He wants and it remains there for life. If you say you don’t want it in
your Bible and you tear it, you can’t tear it in my Bible. People should
check their own Bible if they are not comfortable with what their
religious leaders taught them about tithe. And let me tell you that
pastors who say there is no need to pay tithe know how to get money from
their members, and at the end of the day, they get more than the tithe.
We cannot afford to be ignorant of the word of God. I don’t know the
entire Bible, but the little I know, I can break it, slice it and
present it to individuals, because the word of God is the bread of life.
Some of the revered great men of God fast for days and they make a lot
of sacrifices. That was how people started calling me Coconut Pastor
(Woli Alagbon).
Why do people call you that?
It’s because when I fast for 21 days or
40 days, I eat only coconut, and what I do is to chew it, drink the
water and dispose the shaft. Why coconut? That is because I want to see
God, and God speaks to me.
40 days, I eat only coconut, and what I do is to chew it, drink the
water and dispose the shaft. Why coconut? That is because I want to see
God, and God speaks to me.
Today (Saturday) would make it a year that your wife was buried. How do you manage missing her?
We thank God for the strength. He has
been faithful. We got married in 1965 and throughout, there was no
girlfriend at home or abroad and people can testify to that. I miss her.
been faithful. We got married in 1965 and throughout, there was no
girlfriend at home or abroad and people can testify to that. I miss her.
Since the Bible is not against remarrying if one loses a partner, are you likely to give that a thought?
All my people and my children are saying
it is not good for me to stay alone. I told them God is with me and
they told me they agreed but that I needed a companion. I said okay. The
first time one of my daughters said to me that I needed to take another
wife, I dropped the call because I was still mourning my late wife.
Bible is not against it, so we are praying to God that God would
provide. When it is time, we will let you know. However, until God says
it is time and this is the person, then nothing changes. Many people
have come to me with suggestions and many ladies have also shown
interest, but I don’t do anything without God’s directive.
it is not good for me to stay alone. I told them God is with me and
they told me they agreed but that I needed a companion. I said okay. The
first time one of my daughters said to me that I needed to take another
wife, I dropped the call because I was still mourning my late wife.
Bible is not against it, so we are praying to God that God would
provide. When it is time, we will let you know. However, until God says
it is time and this is the person, then nothing changes. Many people
have come to me with suggestions and many ladies have also shown
interest, but I don’t do anything without God’s directive.
How come we have so much crime in the country even with the number of churches?
The Bible has said that there would be
chaos in the last days. We need to thank God that churches are
spreading, and the more the better, because the more people go to
church, the more people tend to be saved. And I tell you that if not for
the church, the whole world would have been in problem. In some other
countries, you see the spread of the church as well. Until Jesus comes,
that is when there would no longer be crime or chaos.
chaos in the last days. We need to thank God that churches are
spreading, and the more the better, because the more people go to
church, the more people tend to be saved. And I tell you that if not for
the church, the whole world would have been in problem. In some other
countries, you see the spread of the church as well. Until Jesus comes,
that is when there would no longer be crime or chaos.
You said some time in the
past that prayer could revive the economy, but some people are of the
opinion that when religious leaders make such a statement, they make the
citizens relinquish the need to ask their leaders questions. Is that
the best counsel to give?
past that prayer could revive the economy, but some people are of the
opinion that when religious leaders make such a statement, they make the
citizens relinquish the need to ask their leaders questions. Is that
the best counsel to give?
The pastors and Bishops follow what is
in the Bible. The Bible says call on me (God) in the day of trouble and I
would answer you. If the country runs into problem, we would pray. Look
at the President, he was sick but we organised prayers that we wanted
him to survive his illness and return to the country in better health.
Christians and Muslims prayed and God answered our prayers and he’s back
in good health. About a year ago, there was a serious recession but now
the country is gradually getting out of it, and it’s based on prayers.
Even the wisdom we use comes from God. There is nothing that prayer
cannot do.
in the Bible. The Bible says call on me (God) in the day of trouble and I
would answer you. If the country runs into problem, we would pray. Look
at the President, he was sick but we organised prayers that we wanted
him to survive his illness and return to the country in better health.
Christians and Muslims prayed and God answered our prayers and he’s back
in good health. About a year ago, there was a serious recession but now
the country is gradually getting out of it, and it’s based on prayers.
Even the wisdom we use comes from God. There is nothing that prayer
cannot do.
What is your most memorable moment as a prophet and evangelist?
There are many but God has said in His
word that He would be with me. Some years ago, God sent me to my town to
destroy the tree that they were worshipping. I went there in the night.
I bought petrol and I arrived there around 1am. Of course the people
had slept. I poured the petrol and set it on fire. Then I left. In the
morning, people came out and started asking who could have done that to
their deity. All the priests and hunters came together and began to rain
curses on the person who did it. They said the person would die in
seven days. I said if the idol had power, let it fight for itself, and
nobody should fight for it. Meanwhile, my mother seemed to have had the
idea that I was capable of doing such. I usually fast during that period
but that time I didn’t fast; I was eating three times a day. I didn’t
tell my wife what I did. At the end of the day, many people died. Some
of those who gave me seven days started dying. No power of darkness can
ever stand in my way. Would you believe that I had not been to the
hospital since God called me, except the day I lost my wife? That day,
my system collapsed because of the love we shared. They rushed me to the
University College Hospital, Ibadan, where I spent about three to four
days. So, in my 75 years, I had only been to the hospital once and it
was because of my wife’s death.
word that He would be with me. Some years ago, God sent me to my town to
destroy the tree that they were worshipping. I went there in the night.
I bought petrol and I arrived there around 1am. Of course the people
had slept. I poured the petrol and set it on fire. Then I left. In the
morning, people came out and started asking who could have done that to
their deity. All the priests and hunters came together and began to rain
curses on the person who did it. They said the person would die in
seven days. I said if the idol had power, let it fight for itself, and
nobody should fight for it. Meanwhile, my mother seemed to have had the
idea that I was capable of doing such. I usually fast during that period
but that time I didn’t fast; I was eating three times a day. I didn’t
tell my wife what I did. At the end of the day, many people died. Some
of those who gave me seven days started dying. No power of darkness can
ever stand in my way. Would you believe that I had not been to the
hospital since God called me, except the day I lost my wife? That day,
my system collapsed because of the love we shared. They rushed me to the
University College Hospital, Ibadan, where I spent about three to four
days. So, in my 75 years, I had only been to the hospital once and it
was because of my wife’s death.
Do you have any wish that you still want to accomplish?
Yes, after this birthday, I want to set
up a foundation that would cater to under-privileged people, including
the poor and senior citizens. I want to empower the youth. That is my
dream and I want it to continue after I have left this world. That is
why the divine foundation is coming up, to help all classes of people.
Last year, we gave out tools and materials to people to empower them and
it will only get better as the years go by. We will give money to
people to get education. That is what is on my mind and I believe God
will do it.
up a foundation that would cater to under-privileged people, including
the poor and senior citizens. I want to empower the youth. That is my
dream and I want it to continue after I have left this world. That is
why the divine foundation is coming up, to help all classes of people.
Last year, we gave out tools and materials to people to empower them and
it will only get better as the years go by. We will give money to
people to get education. That is what is on my mind and I believe God
will do it.